God as Spirit or flesh and bone

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

"God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones, God the Son has a resurrected body."

This is what is obviously wrong--you have the person of Jesus Christ as having a resurrected physical body.

You deny that the Father has such--only a Spirit.

That is fine until you add "God" to the equation.

You can no longer differentiate at that level--because there is but one God there--not three, in the faith alone theology.

So--does God have a resurrected body? A simple yes or no?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--does God have a resurrected body? A simple yes or no?

The Father does not have a resurrected body, the Son does have a resureccted body.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The Father does not have a resurrected body, the Son does have a resureccted body.

Are you saying that God has a resurrected body?

note to lurkers: Billyray nor anyone else here that is faith alone is going to answer this question--for obvious reasons. Diversion is all one will get here.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Are you saying that God has a resurrected body?

God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

note to lurkers: Billyray nor anyone else here that is faith alone is going to answer this question--for obvious reasons. Diversion is all one will get here.

Note to lurkers I have already answered this questions multiple times but DB is in his circling mode and gets like this by asking the same question of a variatiion over and over again. Seems to be a glitch is his matrix.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Note to lurkers I have already answered this questions multiple times but DB is in his circling mode and gets like this by asking the same question of a variatiion over and over again. Seems to be a glitch is his matrix.

No! You have not--and you won't fool a single lurker with that post.

Do you believe that God has a resurrected body?

It's a yes or no answer. Diversion into the persons of the Godhead will not answer the question.

There is but one God--either He has a resurrected body or He does not. We know about the persons.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

No! You have not--and you won't fool a single lurker with that post.

Do you believe that God has a resurrected body?

Sure I have answered your question and I will answer it again one more time for you. Perhaps you will get it this time.

God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

There is but one God--either He has a resurrected body or He does not.

And why do you say that?

[MacG]

[QUOTE=dberrie2000;128405]Whoa, hossy. You likened the Trinity to water in steam, ice, and liquid. I stated ok, but not at the same time." [QUOTE]

The triple point of water is three simultaenous forms of the same substance.

Just sayin it can happen to the substances in the world He created why would not something similar be true of Him?

[dberrie2000]

[QUOTE=dberrie2000;128405]Whoa, hossy. You likened the Trinity to water in steam, ice, and liquid. I stated ok, but not at the same time." [QUOTE]

Originally Posted by MacG

The triple point of water is three simultaenous forms of the same substance.

Just sayin it can happen to the substances in the world He created why would not something similar be true of Him?

Again--but not at the same time. The Bible, for instance, has God the Father and Jesus Christ at the same location at the same time, such as Matthew17.

[MacG]

[QUOTE=dberrie2000;133063][QUOTE=dberrie2000;128405]Whoa, hossy. You likened the Trinity to water in steam, ice, and liquid. I stated ok, but not at the same time."

Again--but not at the same time. The Bible, for instance, has God the Father and Jesus Christ at the same location at the same time, such as Matthew17.

That is the meaning of simultaenous as demonstrated in the triple point...unless of course I have been misinformed.

Gas–liquid–solid triple pointMain article: Water (molecule)#Triple point
A typical phase diagram. The dotted green line gives the anomalous behaviour of waterThe single combination of pressure and temperature at which liquid water, solid ice, and water vapour can coexist in a stable equilibrium occurs at exactly 273.16 K (0.01 °C) and a partial vapour pressure of 611.73 pascals (ca. 6.1173 millibars, 0.0060373

The baptism has all three there at the same time.

[dberrie2000]

[QUOTE=MacG;133140][QUOTE=dberrie2000;133063]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Whoa, hossy. You likened the Trinity to water in steam, ice, and liquid. I stated ok, but not at the same time."

Originally Posted by MacG

That is the meaning of simultaenous as demonstrated in the triple point...unless of course I have been misinformed.

The baptism has all three there at the same time.

Which means that the water, steam, and ice is not a good ****ogy. They are not the same substance in all three states at the same time--it can only be one of the three, at the same time.

A "****ousious" God is just that--same substance.

Not friendly to Trinitarian doctrines.

[MacG]

[QUOTE=dberrie2000;133144][QUOTE=MacG;133140]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Which means that the water, steam, and ice is not a good ****ogy. They are not the same substance in all three states at the same time--it can only be one of the three, at the same time.

A "****ousious" God is just that--same substance.

Not friendly to Trinitarian doctrines.

See I learn something new everyday. I always thought that steam, water and ice were all the substance H2O. Now that I have learned what they are not, what they made of?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post


Which means that the water, steam, and ice is not a good ****ogy. They are not the same substance in all three states at the same time--it can only be one of the three, at the same time.

A "****ousious" God is just that--same substance.

Not friendly to Trinitarian doctrines.

Originally Posted by MacG

See I learn something new everyday. I always thought that steam, water and ice were all the substance H2O. Now that I have learned what they are not, what they made of?

Could you provide a cite where I have maintained that water, steam, and ice do not cons***ute the same substance?

Water, steam, and ice can all be made of the same substance. But they do not cons***ute God the Father or God the Son.

The only point I have made about water, steam, and ice is that if I had a cup of water--it could not be all three conditions of water, steam, and ice at the same time. Matthew 17 has the Father and Son at the same location, at the same time.

If God the Father is a Spirit--and Jesus Christ has a body of flesh and bone--then that is where the different substances occur--- not water, steam, and ice.

How are those two different substances of the Father and Son considered a "****ousiosus" God?

[MacG]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could you provide a cite where I have maintained that water, steam, and ice do not cons***ute the same substance?

Water, steam, and ice can all be made of the same substance. But they do not cons***ute God the Father or God the Son.

The only point I have made about water, steam, and ice is that if I had a cup of water--it could not be all three conditions of water, steam, and ice at the same time. Matthew 17 has the Father and Son at the same location, at the same time.

If God the Father is a Spirit--and Jesus Christ has a body of flesh and bone--then that is where the different substances occur--- not water, steam, and ice.

How are those two different substances of the Father and Son considered a "****ousiosus" God?

From your previous post:

They are not the same substance in all three states at the same time--it can only be one of the three, at the same time.

It seems that you still are not sure about either for you use the phrase "can be made of" what else can liquid water, water vapor and frozen water be made of?

The only point I have made about water, steam, and ice is that if I had a cup of water--it could not be all three conditions of water, steam, and ice at the same time.

And the triple point empirically demonstrates it does occur "at exactly 273.16 K (0.01 °C) and a partial vapour pressure of 611.73 pascals (ca. 6.1173 millibars, 0.0060373".

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by MacG

--And the triple point empirically demonstrates it does occur "at exactly 273.16 K (0.01 °C) and a partial vapour pressure of 611.73 pascals (ca. 6.1173 millibars, 0.0060373".

And even if that is true--how do you relate that to the Father and Son being two different substances, and yet, the "****ousious" God?

Are you saying that under 6.1173 millibars--God the Father and the Son become the same substance?

Water may be the same substance in any given condition of water, ice, or steam--but flesh and bone and spirit are not.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

And even if that is true--how do you relate that to the Father and Son being two different substances, and yet, the "****ousious" God?

The Father and the Son are both equally God.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Are you saying that under 6.1173 millibars--God the Father and the Son become the same substance?

I am saying to understand the Trinity, the foundation is the understanding of three simultaneous forms of one substance. They already are the one substance in three forms. This is prior to the incarnation. Do you understand this part of our doctrine? To understand does not mean agreeing with it. This is a yes/no question before moving on.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

DBerrie2000 said: "even when Jesus Christ is added in the same sentence:"

St John17:3--"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

The question is WHY is Jesus Christ even added to the same sentence? Because eternal life is dependent on what? By knowing the only true God and... who else? Why parallel the two?
1 John 5:20 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Sorry, JD, but that dog just ain't gonna hunt. One cannot state that there are different persons as God, and ***ign them two different substances--one a physical body,(God the Son) and the other without a physical body(God the Father) and then state it is the same substance.

Unless you want to establish the fact, that as God, where they all combine--- there is only one--that they are of the same substance. In that case--is it a Spirit and a physical Body--or just a Spirit?


Bump for anyone.

[alanmolstad]

The humanity of Christ has a body.....the divinity that he shares with the Father and the Spirit is pure Spirit.

Jesus has two full and complete natures....the father only has one, as does the Holy Spirit.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus has two full and complete natures....the father only has one, as does the Holy Spirit.

Interesting.

So--does God have two natures--or one?

[alanmolstad]

Perhaps I did not make it clear...

The Bible tells us that for our salvation, the Word became flesh...
The Word never stopped being fully God.
But so that man might forgiven the Word became flesh, and died.


So the nature of God did not change, for the Bible tells us that God changes not.
But the Word also took on himself the additional nature of mankind too.


Thus in the person of Christ we find both the nature of God (spirit) and the nature of man (flesh)

Two natures in the one person.
Fully God almighty, and fully man.

So The Son is fully God in the same way that the father and the Spirit are God, and that did not change.,
But unlike the Father or the Spirit the Son became man,,,,,,a spirit wrapped in flesh.




any questions?_________

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Perhaps I did not make it clear...

The Bible tells us that for our salvation, the Word became flesh...
The Word never stopped being fully God.
But so that man might forgiven the Word became flesh, and died.


So the nature of God did not change, for the Bible tells us that God changes not.
But the Word also took on himself the additional nature of mankind too.


Thus in the person of Christ we find both the nature of God (spirit) and the nature of man (flesh)

Two natures in the one person.
Fully God almighty, and fully man.

So The Son is fully God in the same way that the father and the Spirit are God, and that did not change.,
But unlike the Father or the Spirit the Son became man,,,,,,a spirit wrapped in flesh.

How can the Son be unlike the Father--if they are the same God? Are you claiming that God is unlike Himself? IOW--if God the Son has a resurrected body of flesh and bones--and the Father does not--then how can they be the same God?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Perhaps I did not make it clear...

The Bible tells us that for our salvation, the Word became flesh...
The Word never stopped being fully God.
But so that man might forgiven the Word became flesh, and died.


So the nature of God did not change, for the Bible tells us that God changes not.
But the Word also took on himself the additional nature of mankind too.


Thus in the person of Christ we find both the nature of God (spirit) and the nature of man (flesh)

Two natures in the one person.
Fully God almighty, and fully man.

So The Son is fully God in the same way that the father and the Spirit are God, and that did not change.,
But unlike the Father or the Spirit the Son became man,,,,,,a spirit wrapped in flesh.




any questions?_________

I really like my answer here.
I believe it really addressed the very core of the doubt that some non-Christians might have about the Lord.

[dberrie2000]

JD----God is Spirit. This Spirit is the same substance made up of 3 distinct personalities or persons... the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Sorry, JD, but that dog just ain't gonna hunt. One cannot state that there are different persons as God, and ***ign them two different substances--one a physical body,(God the Son) and the other without a physical body(God the Father) and then state it is the same substance.

Unless you want to establish the fact, that as God, where they all combine--- there is only one--that they are of the same substance. In that case--is it a Spirit and a physical Body--or just a Spirit?

Christ Body was "added" because He took on flesh to save us, but the substance that is the same (****ousious) is God Himself (Spirit)- that is the Father (Spirit), Son (Spirit) and Holy (Spirit) are the same substance, all fully God, co-eternal Spirit.

Christ not only "added" a body--He still has it. That means that Christ has a physical body and a Spirit--and God the Father has a Spirit only.

Does God have a physical body?