The Redemption

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by MacG

Regardless of the RSVP, Matthew 22:3 And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come." All were invited, few came. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem how I longed to gather you as a hen gathers her chick but you would not."

I believe you are confusing the opportunity to inherit eternal life--which is a free gift that came to all through God's free gift of His Atonement, the Redemption--with the actual reception of God's grace unto life to those who obey Him--which comes to those who obey the Redeemer's conditions.

For instance--the Atonement made it possible for all men to repent of their sins--but it did not remiss anyone's sins.

Repentance and water baptism(obedience) was given by the Redeemer as the condition for the actual remission of sins.


Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The point being--if the Atonement forgave sins--then why were all commanded to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins following the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ?

I liken that to a college. The presence of a college represents an opportunity for all to be educated. That is a free gift to all--and a very important one at that. We take that for granted, often. But there are places in the world where that opportunity is not present--regardless of how badly one desires an education.

The same true for God's free gift of the Atonement--unless we were released for the automatic consequences brought upon all men due to the Fall--the opportunity was not there, regardless of our desires. The Atonement represents the opportunity for His grace unto life.

God first had to conquer death and hell--which came to man automatically because of the Fall. That Christ did--and it is referred to as the Redemption. He Redeemed all men from the consequences of the Fall--which now allows all men to be judged according to their own works(choices)--and not for Adam's sin. That was a free gift to all men.

The next step in a college education is a degree. That comes to those who obey the criteria set by the college.

The same true for His grace unto life--that comes to those who meets the conditions set by the Redeemer--and is not a free gift. That requires obedience.

I believe the members of this board confuse those two things--the opportunity for Life--presented to all men through Christ's Atonement, as a free gift, no obedience required--and the actual reception of the grace unto life--presented to those who obey the Redeemer's conditions.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

For instance--the Atonement made it possible for all men to repent of their sins--but it did not remiss anyone's sins.

So Jesus did not PAY for every sin for every person. Is that your belief?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So Jesus did not PAY for every sin for every person. Is that your belief?

No. What is your evidence that God did not pay for every sin of every person?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

No. What is your evidence that God did not pay for every sin of every person?

Your own quote

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

For instance--the Atonement made it possible for all men to repent of their sins--but it did not remiss anyone's sins.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post--What is your evidence that God did not pay for every sin of every person?

Originally Posted by Billyray

Your own quote

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---For instance--the Atonement made it possible for all men to repent of their sins--but it did not remiss anyone's sins.

What does my quote have to do with God's Atonement for all men?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What does my quote have to do with God's Atonement for all men?

Here is your quote

"For instance--the Atonement made it possible for all men to repent of their sins--but it did not remiss anyone's sins."

Your quote shows that you don't believe that Jesus PAID for every sin for every person.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What is your evidence that God did not pay for every sin of every person?

If Jesus PAID for every sin for every person then there would be no basis for sending anyone to Hell.

[MacG]

For instance--the Atonement made it possible for all men to repent of their sins--but it did not remiss anyone's sins.

How'd the Ninevites escape God's coming wrath?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by MacG

How'd the Ninevites escape God's coming wrath?

Since the LDS don't seem to want to think about that maybe we should talk about it to lift up each other.. I see these people as recognizing their sin, and in so doing recognizing that only God is God. They mourned their sin and asked God to forgive them.. How did God respond? He forgave them.. I praise my Lord for being so forgiving.. I need it more than most. I am also convinced as was David that "only against God have I sinned". It is really no one else business.. All they do after being informed of the extent of my sin is judge me.. I can't believe that any of them has ever been clean enough to stand before God even if adultery was the only sin that could be committed.. Since no one is sinless and James tells us that we offend God in only one point we are guilty of all sin in His eyes (James 2:10)..

The ONLY way we can escape God's coming wrath in our time is by His grace through faith in Jesus.. I praise God for the life and sacrifice our our Lord Jesus.. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Here is your quote

"For instance--the Atonement made it possible for all men to repent of their sins--but it did not remiss anyone's sins."

Your quote shows that you don't believe that Jesus PAID for every sin for every person.

Where in the scriptures does one find the Atonement forgave all sins?

If the Atonement forgave sins--then why were all commanded to repent and be baptized following the resurrection?


Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Why was walking in the light given as a condition for the Blood of Christ?



1 John 1:7---King James Version (KJV)

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[Apologette]

dberrie believes Satan is a real god. I'd advise no dialogue with someone preaching such a diabolical belief!

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Apologette

dberrie believes Satan is a real god. I'd advise no dialogue with someone preaching such a diabolical belief!

Was Paul diabolical?


2 Corinthians 4:4---King James Version (KJV)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.