Mormonism is claiming they have set aside their Bigotry

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Not at all--he is quoting Psalm 82 which are unrighteous judges who are called gods.

So tell me more about these "gods" in Psalm 82. I would love to hear more about them.

Psalm 82:1 KJV God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods
Psalm 82:1 NASB God takes His stand in His own congregation;He judges in the midst of the rulers.

Who is "God" in verse 1?

Who are "among the gods" in verse 1?

So, to you "elohim" or gods not only can be used to mean idols, but also rulers, right? And when Moses or David stated that God is God of gods, it could mean that he is the Ruler of rulers...correct?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, to you "elohim" or gods not only can be used to mean idols, but also rulers, right? And when Moses or David stated that God is God of gods, it could mean that he is the Ruler of rulers...correct?

I answered this already specifically addressing the verses that you gave me.

Originally Posted by Billyray

The p***age that you gave me in Deut Moses was speaking about idols.

1Ch 16:25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
1Ch 16:26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.


The reference in the NT that quotes the OT--Psalms 82 is referring to unrighteous judges.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, to you "elohim" or gods not only can be used to mean idols, but also rulers, right? And when Moses or David stated that God is God of gods, it could mean that he is the Ruler of rulers...correct?

Originally Posted by Billyray

Not at all--he is quoting Psalm 82 which are unrighteous judges who are called gods.

So tell me more about these "gods" in Psalm 82. I would love to hear more about them.

Psalm 82:1 KJV God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods
Psalm 82:1 NASB God takes His stand in His own congregation;He judges in the midst of the rulers.

Who is "God" in verse 1?

Who are "among the gods" in verse 1?

BigJ this is a discussion board perhaps you could join the discussion and actually answer some of the questions that I have given you. How about starting with the two above.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So, by your definition, Christ then misspoke, right?

Originally Posted by Billyray

Mormon Apostle James Talmage said the following in "Jesus the Christ"

". . .Divinely Appointed Judges Called ‘gods.’ In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called ‘gods.’ To this the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon’s Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted***le ‘gods."


He was a mormon apostle supposedly inspired by one of your gods so he must be right. Agree BigJ?

BigJ what do you make of James Talmage's quote about the verse your quoted?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ what do you make of James Talmage's quote about the verse your quoted?

Just what it says. I think you are trying to change from the fact that you yourself acknowledge that believing in "gods" does not necessarily make someone a polytheist if those gods are subject to God.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ this is a discussion board perhaps you could join the discussion and actually answer some of the questions that I have given you. How about starting with the two above.

Oh, I thought that was obvious--this verse has many meanings---as often God's words do. First--on the surface, they are those who God called and appointed to be leaders and rulers in the church. Second, they are the offspring of God --which is why the next verses states "and children of the Most High"---who had forgotten who they were and were such behaving a way unbecoming both a leader and a child of God. God reminds these leaders that while they are called of God to be "gods"---that ALL are children of the Most High. This verse calls these "children of God" or "gods' into remembrance or at least asks them to remember and begin acting accordingly. He reminds them of their mortality and that they "being gods" fell like Adam and will die like Adam.

Is that enough of an explanation for you?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Oh, I thought that was obvious--this verse has many meanings---as often God's words do. First--on the surface, they are those who God called and appointed to be leaders and rulers in the church. Second, they are the offspring of God --which is why the next verses states "and children of the Most High"---who had forgotten who they were and were such behaving a way unbecoming both a leader and a child of God.

This verse calls these "children of God" or "gods' into remembrance or at least asks them to remember and begin acting accordingly.

Psalm 82:1 KJV God [Father or Son] standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods [humans]


Alright so the phrase "among the gods" refers to humans. Since you believe that we are all the literal spiritual children of God and his wife, do you think that we are all gods?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Psalm 82:1 KJV God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods
Psalm 82:1 NASB God takes His stand in His own congregation;He judges in the midst of the rulers.

Who is "God" in verse 1? So is this the Father or the Son?

Who are "among the gods" in verse 1? These are humans that are called gods.


So since you believe that we are all literal spiritual children of God and his wife. Do you think that we are all gods?

Not in the way you are thinking. In Abraham we learn that God is greater than all. Unlike us, He is perfect and perfect in His nature. While there is no revelation regarding God having a "wife"---we, by reason, perceive that to be a Father, there is also a mother. I think we are the only religion that would state that women are as essential in God's creation as man. It appears that most Christians think that when God perfects our bodies, he also divorces them and sterilizes them.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Not in the way you are thinking. In Abraham we learn that God is greater than all. Unlike us, He is perfect and perfect in His nature. While there is no revelation regarding God having a "wife"---we, by reason, perceive that to be a Father, there is also a mother. I think we are the only religion that would state that women are as essential in God's creation as man. It appears that most Christians think that when God perfects our bodies, he also divorces them and sterilizes them.

But you are using this section of scripture to show that there are many gods. So are those in verse one gods or are they humans like I have said and your own apostle James Talmage has said in "Jesus the Christ"? You are not being very clear in your answer.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you are using this section of scripture to show that there are many gods. So are those in verse one gods or are they humans like I have said and your own apostle James Talmage has said in "Jesus the Christ"? You are not being very clear in your answer.

Well, seeing as we believe that "humans" is only one stage of our existence---I think you may perceive James Talmage too narrowly. You forget that according to scripture, divine appointment happened before we were "humans"---as with Abraham or those who are foreordained.

If God appointed (foreordained) men to be gods prior to their birth or in the eternities, I think he would recognize them as leaders before their birth (in the eternities) as well. Then the idea of God standing in the "congregation of the mighty" would then make more sense.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Well, seeing as we believe that "humans" is only one stage of our existence---I think you may perceive James Talmage too narrowly. You forget that according to scripture, divine appointment happened before we were "humans"---as with Abraham or those who are foreordained.

If God appointed (foreordained) men to be gods prior to their birth or in the eternities, I think he would recognize them as leaders before their birth (in the eternities) as well. Then the idea of God standing in the "congregation of the mighty" would then make more sense.

So you would consider me a god then, right?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you would consider me a god then, right?

No, but you appear to seem to think so. You seem to know what is scripture and what isn't based on ...what again? And you know the correct understanding of that scripture based on...what again?

So, what do you perceive Psalms 82 to be...what are these "gods" to you---you say men appointed to be leaders by God? Is that right? Do you see yourself as a leader appointed by God?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No

You believe that children of god are gods and I am a literal spirit child of god and his wife. So why am I not a god?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, what do you perceive Psalms 82 to be...what are these "gods" to you---you say men appointed to be leaders by God?

They are unrighteous judges.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

They are unrighteous judges.

Do you believe they were appointed by God?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

One God who is over all gods. At least that is how Moses and David referred to God.

Are these gods of who the Lord is God? Whether they be made of stone, wood, or cradled in the hearts of men? Are they not formed in what God has already created (Colossians 1:16).. These are then not Gods but the formation of what God has already made to reflect the evil in men's hearts. Men like Smith as he invented the idea that Gods other than YHWH exist.. For you to believe anything other than Godis the creator of all things and anything that is formed through or by His creation are also His is to take away from His glory, His Lordship and is based in pure evil.. Is that what you are proclaiming here pure evil? IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Do you believe they were appointed by God?

Not necessarily.

ESV Study Bible

". . .82:1–4 The Task of the “Gods.” The first section gives the *** description of human rulers (the gods), especially those who rule God's covenant people:they are to give justice to the weak and the fatherless, and rescue the weak and the needy*. *. *. from the hand of the wicked (vv. 3–4). Far too often, however, they judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked (i. e., people who take the lead in opposing God's purpose and oppressing others). The words of the psalm do not specify whether the rulers are Israelites, or Gentiles ruling Israel as a subject state (as in the Babylonian or Persian Empires). Both the ideal Davidic king in Psalm 72 and the ideal Gentile ruler in Prov. 31:1–9 are called to protect the powerless from those who would oppress them. Certainly the people of God should aim to embody this most clearly. . ."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You believe that children of god are gods and I am a literal spirit child of god and his wife. So why am I not a god?

Bump for BigJ

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Bump for BigJ

In this context, we were talking of those who are called to be leaders. You are not.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

In this context, we were talking of those who are called to be leaders. You are not.

When I was called to go on a mission was I a god?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

When I was called to go on a mission was I a god?

No. Billyray, I know you think you are---but, no.

Those leaders, such as Abraham, were foreordained. I personally wouldn't qualify you as such; you seem to do better at tearing down than building up.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No. Billyray, I know you think you are---but, no.

Those leaders, such as Abraham, were foreordained. I personally wouldn't qualify you as such; you seem to do better at tearing down than building up.

False! Billy has again and again tried to point you to the cross where Jesus would cleanse you and make you clean enough to approach the throne of God with confidence. Billy only pulls down error and false teaching. He pulls down nothing that is Biblical, the truth of God.. If you see your ideas as being torn down by Billy then they need to come down so truth can take their place.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

False! Billy has again and again tried to point you to the cross where Jesus would cleanse you and make you clean enough to approach the throne of God with confidence. Billy only pulls down error and false teaching. He pulls down nothing that is Biblical, the truth of God.. If you see your ideas as being torn down by Billy then they need to come down so truth can take their place.. IHS jim

James, remember where Paul teaches us that without charity, it doesn't matter how much you "speak with the tongues of angels."

I don't think you realizy how much you or Bilyray have impressed me with how uncharitable you are. As I said, if heaven was filled with people like you, I would prefer not to be there.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

James, remember where Paul teaches us that without charity, it doesn't matter how much you "speak with the tongues of angels."

I don't think you realizy how much you or Bilyray have impressed me with how uncharitable you are. As I said, if heaven was filled with people like you, I would prefer not to be there.

Julie as much as you would like a pat on the head and soft words that "All is well" that be a lie.. All is not well and telling you the ie that it is is NOT LOVING.. There is no love in allowing a wonderful person like you to blindly march down the wide road into the Lake of fire.. So Billy and I pull down error where it exists and in so doing allow the light of Jesus to fill those place hidden by that error.. In opening up the view of truth that is Jesus we are showing you the best love we can.. We show you the Way to life. What is unloving about that?

As far as being in heaven with people like me and Billy, if things remain as they are with you as they are now that won't be an issue.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Julie as much as you would like a pat on the head and soft words that "All is well" that be a lie.. All is not well and telling you the ie that it is is NOT LOVING.. There is no love in allowing a wonderful person like you to blindly march down the wide road into the Lake of fire.. So Billy and I pull down error where it exists and in so doing allow the light of Jesus to fill those place hidden by that error.. In opening up the view of truth that is Jesus we are showing you the best love we can.. We show you the Way to life. What is unloving about that?

As far as being in heaven with people like me and Billy, if things remain as they are with you as they are now that won't be an issue.. IHS jim

I am not expecting a pat on the head. What I do see is that I do know my Savior, I am guided by the Holy Ghost. What I experience here is not correction or reproof, but merely division and hypocrisy.