What's the moral difference?

[God-free]

Originally Posted by John T

This is your OP, and it is you who began to use the term, "God". Therefore, it is up to you to define the terms of the debate, otherwise no LOGICAL discussion is possible.

I provided my definition, as requested, yet you’re still not satisfied.

It should be obvious that you do not know the God of the Bible.

I’m as capable of reading and understanding the Bible as you are. You’re just miffed because my understanding of God doesn’t match yours.

In the face of what you originally stated (second quote) your first quote above is stating a condition contrary to fact.

Incorrect. You ***umed the robbers intention was to cause harm. I explained his intention (and God’s) was to get something from someone. The choice of weapon, used to give credence to the threats made to coerce compliance, is irrelevant. What IS relevant is the immorality of the use of coercion to get what is asked/demanded of someone. Is that too difficult to grasp? I hope not because that’s the last time I intend to explain it to you.

You seem not to be able to remember nor learn from your errors of logic because you repeat them again. That is because by the very definitions of God, and man, they occupy different realms.

I don’t care if God is a Martian who resides on the moon and considers himself the best belly dancer ever to grace a stage. It’s irrelevant to the moral and ethical observances in THIS realm of existence which is where these hypothetical scenarios are taking place.

Ah! Yes. this is the "prove to me..." canard. BOTH of us know that this is a simple ruse to say that you are "rational" when in fact we both know that because you have hardened your heart to such an extent that there is nothing in the universe that would cause you to believe that there is indeed a God, and that He has revealed Himself in the Bible.

You can convince me there’s a God with a demonstration of its existence. Do that and I’ll become a theist.

The Bible speaks of...

Again with the Bible verses? I’ve read it and I don’t believe it’s true. I’ve asked you to provide me with a demonstrably valid reason to believe it and all you gave me in return was an accusation of deception (“a simple ruse”, you called it) and of hardening my heart. That’s a failure on your part.

...I ask you have you EVER looked at the internal consistency of the Bible in an honest manner? Really, I guess not because you have surrounded yourself with an impenetrable wall of resistance whereby you decided in advance that you will reject everything that has any spiritual value. Are you aware that there are many former atheists who have decided to take an honest look at the internal consistency of the Bible and found that what the Bible says about itself is internally consistent?

I've told you how you can penetrate the "impenetrable wall." Reliable evidence is all I need. And, btw, I am a former believer. I didn't decide in advance to reject religion. All I did was evaluate my beliefs in an effort to justify them. In doing so, I found that my beliefs were unjustifiable. So, yes, I looked into the internal consistency of the Bible. Even if it were internally consistent (it’s not), that doesn’t make it TRUE.