Hello Saxon
I understand the point you are making and I agree that if we are new creatures in Christ we should act like new creatures, but this does not all happen at once.
1 Peter 1:5-8 says this,"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
I would like to suggest that at the point of salvation we all become ALL the Christian that we ever will become. A person is either a Christian or a sinner, there is no in-between. What the writer of Hebrews said was that we (Christians) should go on to perfection, or maturity as stated in numerous versions. (See Hebrews 6:1) In the transition to perfection we all learn and stumble and get picked up and carry on. This is normal and expected. This happens as we follow the Lord.

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2 Peter 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


Many times the New Testament writers make a point of saying "We do not want you to be deceived brethren", and this is because obviously Christians can be deceived. Many are lulled into thinking inaction and complacency is fine, that is why we must study and encourage one another without becoming legalistic. One truck driver works 6 days a week, the other figures driving twice a month is enough. He is still a truck driver though perhaps lazy or misled. Lazy, misled or deceived Christians have not lost their salvation otherwise it was conditional based on performance. Laziness and apathy cannot chase out the Holy Spirit which dwells in each Christian but should bring about conviction and even chastisement. But sometimes professors are not possessors, who knows the heart but God. Remember John said in his epistle,"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." Many who say this man was a Christian but has now become lost again were looking at a lost man all along.


Are you suggesting that it is legalistic to disagree with the thought of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS)?

What does deception mean to you? You have stated that Christians can be deceived so I will ***ume that you believe that we, as Christians are open to the full onslaught of deception.

In the following definition items 1, 3 and 4 seem to fit the idea in the Christian realm. What is the point of being deceived? If we cannot fall from grace (See Galatians 5:4) why would Satan waste time deceiving Christians? It is possible to fall from grace. (See Galatians 5:4)

Deceived: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deceived
transitive verb
1 archaic: ensnare
2a obsolete: to be false to
b archaic : to fail to fulfill
3 obsolete: cheat
4: to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid
5 archaic : to while away
intransitive verb
: to practice deceit; also : to give a false impression <appearances can deceive>

You have fallen short on the truck driver. Even the one that drives twice a month is still driving the truck. I am referring to the one that stops driving the truck.

As I pointed out in Ephesians 2:10 it is conditional and performance. Getting salvation from God is a gift, but being a Christian is work. We were created in Christ Jesus unto good works and God has ordained that we should walk in them. That is a condition of being a Christian, do the works God ordained for Christians to do.

1 John 2:19 is not workable to the OSAS discussion as there is no possible way to determine if the ones that walked away were or were not saved at one point in time. All it shows is that they were with them and left them. All we can do is pick an opinion that seems correct. The fact that they were with them is compelling me to think that they were saved but walked away. You are of the opinion that they were with them just checking things out and decided not to believe. All we have is opinion and opinion proves nothing.

“Many who say this man was a Christian but has now become lost again were looking at a lost man all along.” All this does for me is ask the question, who can know if they are saved or not? OSAS kills any idea that anyone can know that they are saved and this is contrary to 1 John 5:13. John says that you may know that you have eternal life.

I have a friend that was saved, and “knew” that he was saved, but now he has nothing good to say about Jesus or the Bible. You are in the same predicament if OSAS is true, you do not know if you are saved. You could be the next one that thinks you’re saved and then turn back to your old ways. All OSAS has done, in reality, is sow the seed of doubt. As long as you believe OSAS and follow it to its logical conclusion, you can never know for sure if you are saved.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.