Quote Originally Posted by Sentinus View Post
And of course i agree it does clear up some things, but makes other things less clear, at least IMO.
Fine enough. I just don't get how you reached that conclusion. We'll explore.

And this is my point exactly BOTH systems of finite understanding have logical faults. Your God can't control Satan, but can only use the acts Satan does to bring to p*** some form of what we call good. Yet, Mormonisms God can NEVER destroy or ultimately defeat evil. Your need to take God of the hook IMO neuters Him.
huh? 'Tis a straw man to suggest to LDS God cannot control Satan. Of course He can. Wait till the thousand year reign of Christ and you'll see that. To LDS God does destroy and defeat evil...that's the whole point. Are you then suggesting that to mainstreamism God will cause evil to completely stop even in Hell? That's not the general conclusion of mainstreamism from what I've seen. If hell persists in mainstreamism, then according to your logic God can't destroy or ultimately defeat evil either.

I see it differently. The LDS God knowingly placed temptation in the Garden so that free will could be had. In this very act He acts as Satan would, by tempting, why else would the fruit have been so enticing. Next time you go through the endowment session pay very close attention to the dialogue between Satan and God..
In so thinking, it seems, you are attempting to suggest, very p***ively, that to LDS God caused the fall. If the fall was a good thing, as LDS believe, then His causing such is not a bad thing at all. Its actually a benefit for His creations.

I
sn't it worst to have belief in a God that isn't all powerful?
If we're strictly speaking philosophically, then I question whether mainstreamism's God is even close to all powerful. What's so all-powerful about a creator who creates out of nothing creatures who ultimately suffer eternally? Or who initiates the conception of evil? Remember without creating, according to the logical conclusion of mainstreamism, evil never would be if God did not originally conceive of all the evil designs that ever would be.

I see no problem with God creating that which we call in our finite view as Evil. His way is not our way. And I have no need to transfer my finite view of "right and wrong" "Good and evil" onto an all powerful creator. I need only place my faith as the created in this all knowing, all loving God to make much better decisions than I in my finite state could ever comprehend.
Such is your right. 'preciate the honesty

Which is why you choose to reject it. That is a logical response. However just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make it false.
Fair enough. I would not suggest as much. Truthfully though, it does, in my mind, cause skepticism as to the truthfulness of mainstreamism.

Hmmmmm. This conclusion is disheartening, and in no way a new response when Mainstreamism is filtered through the LDS microscope. Your church has attacked Christianity since it's inception and continues to do so everyday. I sure hope you aren't one in the camp that believes that people like Russ should simply shut up and move on.
I see no reason for anyone to just shut up and move on. I state the opposite of Russell quite often around here. Keep piping up, Russ.

But it does open up other doors of doctrinal issue that cannot be rectified once you take the control away from Him. Additionally that which we as finite beings determine is evil isn't necessarily bad at all. Let me give you an example. My Cousin was born with progeria, a disease that causes children to age 8-10 time faster than other children. (Imagine a child that ages like a Dog.) Now someone could ask "Why God Why did this happen?", and as a father I could see myself even possibly cursing God. Yet if you step outside of the emotion you can see how the creation of this person is Ultimately good. Because of this birth Thousands of people have come together in love and community to support their neighbors. Thousands have seen a PERFECT example of how to embrace life anew with inspirational zeal. Thousands have been affected by the outpouring of love and support, and in the end no one could view the creation of this child as evil when the whole is considered. You I feel are not looking at the picture BIG enough from the Mainstream perspective. You are stuck as my ****ogy goes in the cursing God stage. We as individuals stand but on the shore of the Ocean we call God. Just because it looks like the water ends a few hundred miles out and that the Earth seems to stop on the horizon doesn't mean that monster lay in wait to destroy. Nor does the fact that we have possibly ventured only a few feet out mean that the Ocean itself is only inches deep.
But, even for LDS we can see the blessing of such a seeming curse. So I don't curse God at all for the particular situations of some people. Your reasoning holds true only if mainstreamism was the only option in regards to God...but its not.

If you say so. I believe in a God that created all and in a God that before Him nothing existed, and ultimately in a God that is in control of EVERYTHING. With your hardline stance on this issue I have to wonder what your take is on the book of ***..

All the best ,
Sentinus
All that you just attributed to God I believe the same--aside from the conclusion that before Him nothing existed. Remember I accept the Bible as the Word of God...true that may mean something other to me than it does to most mainstreamers, but that does not mean I do not see resolution to ***'s difficulty. God intends to test us all, and ***'s book proves that LDS tenet as much as any.

love,
stem