Quote Originally Posted by contraeverything View Post

However, the following "causes" I did discover in the gospels: not being with Christ (Matt 12:30), sin & blasphemy (Matt. 12:31-32), and being unregenerate (Matt. 12:43-45). It seems to me that these "causes" could each be cl***ified under one umbrella cause - that of rebellion. For rebellion is certainly not taking Christ's side of an issue, both sin and blasphemy are acts of rebellion, and remaining unregenerate, I suppose, is the ultimate act of rebellion.

I am proposing that the issue with demon possession, based upon my initial investigation of the scriptures here, is not contact with the occult, but rather rebellion against God. Rebellion - as in the feminist grandmother mentioned above - places one at once in the place of REJECTING God's authority and ACCEPTING evil (or, as one might say, a contrary, ungodly authority) instead. Certainly, "contact with the occult" is a form of rebellion, but it would only be a subset of rebellion, the actual cause, and not the cause itself.

I simply find a paucity of indications that "contact with the occult" is widespread enough among the incredible number of people who were possessed in the Bible to be able to intellectually isolate it as THE cause of possession. Also, I have questions about the possession of children (not wholly infrequent in the gospel p***ages Martin lists) and the likelihood that children could choose to participate in occultic matters. Maybe it is just me.

However, I would love to get some feedback on this. I am not saying Martin is "wrong" per se, and his ***ertion is certainly true as far as it goes, but I simply wonder if it goes far enough.

Or perhaps I am missing a crucial aspect of his argument?

Any help here?
1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim (household good luck images). Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, He also has rejected you from being king.

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against cons***uted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until he who restrains is taken out of the way.


Scripture says that rebellion is "as" the sin of witchcraft. This was written about King Saul. I think that rebellion is seen as seeking direction from someone(in Saul's case himself) other than God and thus rejecting God's rule and authority.

Isn't that what someone who is involved in these occult practices does? They seek something or someone other than God for advice, counsel or direction and in so doing reject God's counsel (word)?

Apparently the propensity to turn to the occult was already present in Saul because he later does exactly that.

1 Samuel 28:7
Then Saul said to his servants, Find me a woman who is a medium [between the living and the dead], that I may go and inquire of her. His servants said, Behold, there is a woman who is a medium at Endor.


So could we say that anyone who is rebelling against God is actually involved in witchcraft? That might depend on what you believe that an act of rebellion is or is not.