My daughter came into town yesterday.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The verse that you gave me didn't answer my question so here it is again for you.

Of the commandments that Jesus told the man to follow, how many had the guy followed?......many?....most?...or all?

[alanmolstad]

many?

most?

or all?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But saying the Father draws all men to Christ is different than saying that the Father draws all men to the Father.

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

nope...same thing.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you believe that the Father and the Son are the same person?

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

same Lord,,,same God...different persons within the one God.

So they cant be separated and somehow teach that one drew us and not the others..
. . .

So if they are different persons then saying the Father draws all men to Christ is different than saying that the Father draws all men to the Father.

[alanmolstad]

""All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack"


many?.....most?...or all?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So if they are different persons then saying the Father draws all men to Christ is different than saying that the Father draws all men to the Father.

nope.....same thing

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

""All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack"


many?.....most?...or all?

The man in question did not obey ALL of the commandment.

So here is my question again for you.

If a person obeys ALL of the commandments ALL of the time does that person need a Savior in order to live with God again?

[alanmolstad]

many?...most?...or all?

what does it say?

[alanmolstad]

many?...most?...or all?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So if they are different persons then saying the Father draws all men to Christ is different than saying that the Father draws all men to the Father.

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

nope.....same thing

If I said that Christ died on the cross would it be the same thing to say that the Father died on the cross or the Holy Spirit died on the cross?

[alanmolstad]

and for anyone watching at home, the correct answer is....ALL !

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

many?...most?...or all?

what does it say?

The man CLAIMS to have obeyed all of the commandments--Jesus never says that he obeyed all of the commandments. Big difference.

So here is my question again for you.

If a person obeys ALL of the commandments ALL of the time does that person need a Savior in order to live with God again?

[alanmolstad]

so the correct answer to my question points out the flaw in the thinking that just keeping a law gets a person to heaven....it dont!


works dont save us....nothing we can "do" with our arms and legs get our heart right with god...

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

and for anyone watching at home, the correct answer is....ALL !

Do you honestly believe that the man who made that claim had lived a perfect life not ever committing a single sin?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

so the correct answer to my question points out the flaw in the thinking that just keeping a law gets a person to heaven....it dont!

If a person kept all of the commandments all of the time--living a life just like Jesus--what would be the basis for sending that person to Hell?

[alanmolstad]

Jesus then goes on to next tell the guy that regardless of the kept Law you still have to get your heart right with God...

and Jesus tells the man how to do this...

"Follow Me"

This was the same thing that Jesus asked Peter and the 12 to do at the start when he asked them to "Follow me"

The difference is that Peter and the 12 dropped everything and went with Jesus, whereas this guy walks away feeling sad over how it would hurt to be poor...

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If a person kept all of the commandments all of the time--living a life just like Jesus--what would be the basis for sending that person to Hell?

Matthew 7:23

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you honestly believe that the man who made that claim had lived a perfect life not ever committing a single sin?

I believe only what the text says....I dont need to force it to say things it does not say...

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus then goes on to next tell the guy that regardless of the kept Law you still have to get your heart right with God...

Then by your own admission he didn't keep ALL of the commandments ALL of the time. Remember that during Christ's lifetime they were still under the Law.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you honestly believe that the man who made that claim had lived a perfect life not ever committing a single sin?

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I believe only what the text says....I dont need to force it to say things it does not say...

Would you say that a person who keeps ALL of the commandments ALL of the time would be considered "good"?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Then by your own admission he didn't keep ALL of the commandments ALL of the time. Remember that during Christ's lifetime they were still under the Law.

Jesus listed the Laws for the guy...so you and I don't have to guess if the guy kept the right laws or not,,,
Jesus lists them for him!!!!!!

and how many of the ones that Jesus listed did the guy keep?...many...most?..or all?

(LOL, You wont answer that question because you see now how your whole position is destroyed in the words of the Bible ...if my own positions were as weak I would not like the question too)

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Would you say that a person who keeps ALL of the commandments ALL of the time would be considered "good"?

Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing"

Good?....no, I think the word I would use would be "lacking"

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus listed the Laws for the guy...so you and I don't have to guess if the guy kept the right laws or not,,,Jesus lists them for him!!!!!!

and how many of the ones that Jesus listed did the guy keep?...many...most?..or all?

(LOL, You wont answer that question because you see now how your whole position is destroyed in the words of the Bible ...if my own positions were as weak I would not like the question too)

Why laugh when I have answered your question AND you are wrong on this point and I am right. Now if anything is funny the irony of the situation is funny.

And here is your answer again--He absolutely did not keep them all.

Can you honestly say that you believe that this man kept ALL of the commandments ALL of the time?

And if you ever feel inclined to answer my question that would be much appreciated. Here it is again for you. If a person obeys ALL of the commandments ALL of the time does that person need a Savior in order to live with God again?

[alanmolstad]

many?......most?...or all?.....LOL

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing"

Good?....no, I think the word I would use would be "lacking"

If the man was lacking something then by your own admission he did not keep all of the commandments.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

many?......most?...or all?.....LOL

Perhaps you didn't read my post. Here it is again for you.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why laugh when I have answered your question AND you are wrong on this point and I am right. Now if anything is funny the irony of the situation is funny.

And here is your answer again--He absolutely did not keep them all.

Can you honestly say that you believe that this man kept ALL of the commandments ALL of the time?

And if you ever feel inclined to answer my question that would be much appreciated. Here it is again for you. If a person obeys ALL of the commandments ALL of the time does that person need a Savior in order to live with God again?