What are the requirements to be a Christian?

To be a christian you must believe in the resurrection of Christ..

There is no other requirement.

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Originally Posted by TheSword99

Anyway, I'm done. I wish you had a teachable heart, Billy

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Sword you ***ume that you are right and I am wrong. That is your is your problem now and that has been your problem in the past in our discussions.

I understand that we have differences of opinion. You have scriptures that back your point of view. I have scriptures that back my point of view. If it was a clear cut issue then there would not be any debate. I think I have a fair understanding of your position and I respect it. I have a different position yet you don't respect mine. You and Erik have had this personal mission to prove me wrong at any cost and I am not sure why but one thing I am sure about is that this is evident to anyone reading this thread.

BTW you asked me to give you a couple of verses as to why I believe the way I do. I gave them to you and instead of at least addressing them and trying to see my point of view you called me confused.

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

To be a christian you must believe in the resurrection of Christ..

There is no other requirement.

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Thanks Alan for trying to get us back on track.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

Thanks Alan for trying to get us back on track.

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So you agree with Alan that the only requirement for being a true christian is belief in the resurrection?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmIQkX7_no


Only faith in the Resurrection makes a person a Christian...

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

So you agree with Alan that the only requirement for being a true christian is belief in the resurrection?

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I believe that a Christian is defined by faith in Christ and regeneration.


And Erik what are the requirements to be a Christian?

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

So you agree with Alan that the only requirement for being a true christian is belief in the resurrection?

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Erik will you give me an honest answer?

You don't think Alan is a Christian do you?

Billy,

John 1:12-13 teaches that one must be spiritually and supernaturally reborn to become regenerated. First one must receive Christ as Savior before this can happen. It is like light and dark. The light of God cannot dwell within a dark heart, so conversion first and regeneration second.

Jill, isn't it time to delete another thread and ban a few more Mormons as per your standard MO (mode of operation)? :)

For the readers, this disagreement that has been going from thread to thread does not involve Mormons but for whatever reason, the Mormons keep getting banned.

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Originally Posted by glm1978

so conversion first and regeneration second.

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So who came in 3rd?

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Originally Posted by glm1978

Billy,

John 1:12-13 teaches that one must be spiritually and supernaturally reborn to become regenerated.

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John 1 NIV
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Hey are you, Erik, and the Sword roomates? It seems like you guys are taking turns at the computer.


First off regenerated IS born again or spiritual birth. According to verse 13 can a person "will" himself to be reborn?

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

So who came in 3rd?

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Alan you did not quote all of what Walter Martin said on the youtube link that you posted earlier. Would you care to list the other points please.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

For the readers, this disagreement that has been going from thread to thread does not involve Mormons but for whatever reason, the Mormons keep getting banned.

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BigJ this was a good thread until Sword highjacked it. I certainly hope this does not get deleted. BTW what LDS just got banned for participating in this thread?

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Originally Posted by glm1978

Alan you did not quote all of what Walter Martin said on the youtube link that you posted earlier. Would you care to list the other points please.

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Glm1978 you don't believe Alan is a Christian do you?

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Originally Posted by glm1978

Alan you did not quote all of what Walter Martin said on the youtube link that you posted earlier. Would you care to list the other points please.

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actually, I got to the one central idea that Walter Martin taught, as well as any good Bible teacher will also teach....

That the only single requirement to being a Christian is that you must have faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Compared to that one core idea, all this other talk of what came first theologically (a reformed version of the Chicken or the egg?) is moot.

Just believe in the Christian teaching on the resurrection of Jesus Christ and you ARE a christian......

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Originally Posted by glm1978

Billy,
The light of God cannot dwell within a dark heart, so conversion first and regeneration second.

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So you do works first to purify yourself is that what you are saying?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ this was a good thread until Sword highjacked it. I certainly hope this does not get deleted. BTW what LDS just got banned for participating in this thread?

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Your comment is derogatory. This is an open forum and anyone can post on the threads. So if you don't want comments from others take it to PM. You have posted more on this thread than anyone .

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Originally Posted by Billyray

John 1 NIV
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Hey are you, Erik, and the Sword roomates? It seems like you guys are taking turns at the computer.


First off regenerated IS born again or spiritual birth. According to verse 13 can a person "will" himself to be reborn?

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The word is spelled roommates. I am neither Sword or Erik but if more than one person doesn't hold your view then we all must be attacking you, correct. Spiritual birth is a regeneration, on that you are correct, but Faith proceeds its. John 1:12-13 says Faith does come first. You posted the scripture and that is what it says so if you disagree with the scripture you need to take that up with God.

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Originally Posted by glm1978

Your comment is derogatory. This is an open forum and anyone can post on the threads. So if you don't want comments from others take it to PM. You have posted more on this thread than anyone .

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It does happen to be my thread. And I started it in response to being labeled a non Christian by both Jim and BigJ. Other than a short reply to BigJ about regeneration this thread had nothing to do with Calvinism. This was interjected by the Sword and now has completely derailed this thread.

you have to understand one thing about the christian faith...It is a faith of the simple common people.

If being a Christian was tricky, then none of us would be Christian.

If being a Christian was due to being able to p*** a theology test of doctrine?.....none of us would be a Christian.

The Christian faith is a faith that is easy to grasp...its simple..just believe and you ARE a Christian.

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Originally Posted by glm1978

Spiritual birth is a regeneration, on that you are correct, but Faith proceeds its. John 1:12-13 says Faith does come first.

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John 1
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Do you believe that you can "will" your regeneration?

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Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ this was a good thread until Sword highjacked it. I certainly hope this does not get deleted. BTW what LDS just got banned for participating in this thread?

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Well, BibleChristian just got banned. I have looked at the LDS who have gotten banned and their last posts and for the life of me, I cannot see what was so offensive that Jill felt to ban them--but her site, her choice.

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Originally Posted by BigJulie

Well, BibleChristian just got banned. I have looked at the LDS who have gotten banned and their last posts and for the life of me, I cannot see what was so offensive that Jill felt to ban them--but her site, her choice.

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When I was on MADB board that happened to me on multiple occasions.

But I have a feeling that bibleChristian was a repeat LDS poster under a different name, but that is only a hunch on my part.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

It does happen to be my thread. And I started it in response to being labeled a non Christian by both Jim and BigJ. Other than a short reply to BigJ about regeneration this thread had nothing to do with Calvinism. This was interjected by the Sword and now has completely derailed this thread.

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This may be your thread but its still an open forum. Although this thread does not have to do with Calvinism, your views concerning regeneration does. It would be remiss if Christians let you go unchecked trying to teach others this false belief. Billyray, get your KJV and look at the footnotes for John 1, 12,13. BELIEF comes first.

It really amazes me that others show you the scriptures that teaches faith precedes regeneration and you totally ignore that and keep harping about John1, 12,13 which doesn't say what you claim.


Go ahead and do your own thing Billy, but if you teach something that conflicts with the Bible we will confront it on the forum. I thought you were a christian, but your actions and understanding of what the scriptures actually does teach, seems to proves otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

Billyray, get your KJV and look at the footnotes for John 1, 12,13. BELIEF comes first.

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John 1
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Erik do you "will" yourself to be born again?

If you repent and place your faith in Christ then your regeneration IS based on your actions/works. i.e. you are willing yourself to be born again.

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

I thought you were a christian, but your actions and understanding of what the scriptures actually does teach, seems to proves otherwise.

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so all Reformed Christians are not really Christians according to you?

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

Billyray, get your KJV and look at the footnotes for John 1, 12,13. BELIEF comes first.

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ESV Study Bible
Born, not of blood … , but of God makes clear that neither physical birth nor ethnic descent nor human effort can make people children of God, but only God's supernatural work (8:41–47; cf. 3:16). This extends the possibility of becoming God's children to Gentiles and not just Jews (11:51–52; cf. 10:16). See also 3:3–8. To all … who believed … he gave the right indicates that saving faith precedes becoming members of God's family through adoption as his children.


The Bible Knowledge Commentary:
1:13. The new birth does not come by natural descent (lit., “of bloods”), nor is it the result of a human decision (lit., “the will of the flesh,” i.e., the natural human desire for children), nor is it the result of a husband’s will. The birth of a child of God is not a natural birth; it is a supernatural work of God in regeneration. A person welcomes Jesus and responds in faith and obedience to Him, but the mysterious work of the Holy Spirit is “the cause” of regeneration (3:5-8).

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

Billyray, get your KJV

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Oh yea I forgot you are a KJV only guy.

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Originally Posted by Billyray

John 1
12:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Do you believe that you can "will" your regeneration?

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But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

Some sincere Christians believe that the sinner is regenerated by receiving the Spirit "before" he believes. But Paul makes it clear that the receiving of the Spirit happens when the sinner believes.

Not of the will of the flesh means we are not saved through self-effort. Not of the will of man means not everyone will accept Christ.

But of God: when you become saved, you aren't given a new birth by parents or other people, but God Himself.


Faith is the means not the result. Nowhere does the Bible say that faith is created by regeneration. John 3::1-16 explains how God gives eternal life as a result of faith, not a requirement for faith. Eph 2:8 explains how it is through faith God made alive those who were dead in sins (Eph. 2:1-7). Regeneration is the result of receiving God’s eternal life, and that life is only available through faith (John 5:24; 20:31)

Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)
Originally written in 1706, Matthew Henry's six volume Complete Commentary provides an exhaustive look at every verse in the Bible.

[John 1]
"It is not produced by the natural power of our own will. As it is not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, so neither is it of the will of man, which labours under a moral impotency of determining itself to that which is good; so that the principles of the divine life are not of our own planting, it is the grace of God that makes us willing to be his. Nor can human laws or writings prevail to sanctify and regenerate a soul; if they could, the new birth would be by the will of man. But, 2. Positively: it is of God. This new birth is owing to the word of God as the means (1 Pet. i. 23), and to the Spirit of God as the great and sole author. True believers are born of God, 1 John iii. 9; v. 1."


Erik I understand that you have a different point of view and I respect your view. You on the other hand do not respect my view.

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

Not of the will of man means not everyone will accept Christ.

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That is not what that says Erik. It says that you are not born again based on your own will or actions.

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

we are not saved through self-effort.

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Then how are you saved?

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Originally Posted by ErikErik

I thought you were a christian, but your actions and understanding of what the scriptures actually does teach, seems to proves otherwise.

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so all Reformed Christians are not really Christians according to you?

[QUOTE=BigJulie;89216]

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Originally Posted by James Banta

This is an evangelical site (not LDS) explaining the birthright. I hope it helps you to understand this stuff in a light that you can see and not be defensive about it.

http://www.bibletruthonline.com/birt...MtoEPHRAIM.htm

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I see that and it is just what I have been saying in Judah is the promise of kingship. In Judah is the promise of the Messiah. Sounds like it is Judah that received the double portion of the birthright and not Joseph.. But then Joseph did receive a double portion of his father's property.. Even if holding the right of king over the people, isn't Jesus the best of the inheritances? Your insistence to be of the house of Joseph and therefore the people of the birthright has lost it's power I would say.. That promise to Jacob that through him all the world would be blessed in the best and most important promise made to him, Issac, and Abraham.. IHS jim

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Originally Posted by glm1978

so conversion first and regeneration second.

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Conversion = Faith and repentance

Regeneration = born again or spiritual life


So a person can be converted and thus saved but not regenerated?

When does a person enter into the Kingdom of God?

Conversion = Faith and Repentance = Salvation

Regeneration = spiritual birth (awakens the person spiritually)


Conversion and regeneration are distinct. Conversion is based on things that you do which is repent and place your faith in Christ. Regeneration is something God does to you by awakening you spiritually or being born again.


Conversion----->Salvation----->Regeneration (Arminian)


Regeneration---->Conversion----->Salvation (Reformed)


In the Arminian position a person is converted thus saved prior to regeneration. By definition a person repents and places his faith in Christ and this must precede regeneration even if by a second or less. Thus a person is saved but not born again even just for a moment. The Reformed position is that a person is regenerated then converted.

When does a man become a Christian?.....

It works out like this:
The man may have a different faith, or no faith at all.
The message of the Lord reaches the man and he listens.

This message sinks down into him about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and what that means to people...

He believes in the resurrection....
Now in that moment he believes, at that instant, at that single heartbeat...... he is a Christian.

and yes, it may take the whole rest of his life to conform his life to the image of Christ.
But he is truly a Believer, he is truly a Christian, he is truly now and forever more, "saved".....

it's that easy to become a Christian.

Now that I have shown how easy it is to become a Christian, I think I should next talk about the many common questions some people have that are in outreach to the CULTs or have friends and family in a CULT.

Questions:
Can a Christian have extra books besides the bible they turn to for religious guidance? ....Yes....As long as the person does not turn away from the teaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

can a Christian believe in baptism for the dead?......Yes

Can a Christian have more than one wife?....yes

Can a christian hold to a teaching that there are still Apostles?...yes

Would a person who does not believe in drinking coffee or beer still be able to hold onto that idea and yet become a Christian?...yes

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Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Now that I have shown how easy it is to become a Christian, I think I should next talk about the many common questions some people have that are in outreach to the CULTs or have friends and family in a CULT.

Questions:
Can a Christian have extra books besides the bible they turn to for religious guidance? ....Yes....As long as the person does not turn away from the teaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

can a Christian believe in baptism for the dead?......Yes

Can a Christian have more than one wife?....yes

Can a christian hold to a teaching that there are still Apostles?....yes

Would a person who does not believe in drinking coffee or beer still be able to hold onto that idea and yet become a Christian?....yes

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You are going to have to do more than just say yes to your questions. You need to back up why with Bible.

Andy

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Originally Posted by akaSeerone

You are going to have to do more than just say yes to your questions. You need to back up why with Bible.

Andy

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the post's answers should be clear enough to anyone if they takes a moment and thinks it over....

Its like, can a man drive a car and be a Christian?...yes
Can a man be totally disgusted at his President and be a Christian?...yes
Can a man be against all countries fighting in any wars and be a Christian?...yes

The thing Im pointing to is that "acting" like a Christian, or "acting" not like a Christian is a moot point when talking about if a person actually "is' a christian.

The ONLY thing that makes a person a Christian is their faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

As long as the person does not mess with that single core Christian idea, they are Christian.

So all of the window dressing of a christian life, like being the husband of only one wife, or submitting to your government, speaking in tongues or having a good reputation are always going to be merely secondary to the only real important issue to a christian's salvation.....DO THEY BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS?

Nothing can be further from the Truth.

You have left out the part where Mormonism has tried to redefine the Bible and teach a Jesus and God that simply is not found in the Bible, so your rationalization is the flesh's meaningless attempt to sound Christian and is equal to Jesus saying to Peter get thee behind me Satan for you savorest the things of man, not of God.

Andy